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	<title>Comments on: Deutschland vor!</title>
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	<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/07/05/deutschland-vor/</link>
	<description>Poundshop potshots at the media moral maze.</description>
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		<title>By: hellblazer</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/07/05/deutschland-vor/comment-page-1/#comment-6083</link>
		<dc:creator>hellblazer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 08:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=2296#comment-6083</guid>
		<description>Interesting link, by the way. I think &lt;a href=&quot;http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090822.6305/on-unexamined-privileges-and-unconscious-behaviours/comment-page-2/#comment-134101&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;comment 17&lt;/a&gt; and the &lt;a href=&quot;http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090822.6305/on-unexamined-privileges-and-unconscious-behaviours/comment-page-2/#comment-134104&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;rejoinder to it at 19&lt;/a&gt; are well worth a read by anyone still observing this part of the comment thread. I&#039;m not saying (yet) which of the two I agree more with, though...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting link, by the way. I think <a href="http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090822.6305/on-unexamined-privileges-and-unconscious-behaviours/comment-page-2/#comment-134101" rel="nofollow">comment 17</a> and the <a href="http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090822.6305/on-unexamined-privileges-and-unconscious-behaviours/comment-page-2/#comment-134104" rel="nofollow">rejoinder to it at 19</a> are well worth a read by anyone still observing this part of the comment thread. I&#8217;m not saying (yet) which of the two I agree more with, though&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: hellblazer</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/07/05/deutschland-vor/comment-page-1/#comment-6080</link>
		<dc:creator>hellblazer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 08:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=2296#comment-6080</guid>
		<description>This retort seems unattached to whichever comment it&#039;s addressed to...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This retort seems unattached to whichever comment it&#8217;s addressed to&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: hellblazer</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/07/05/deutschland-vor/comment-page-1/#comment-6079</link>
		<dc:creator>hellblazer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 08:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=2296#comment-6079</guid>
		<description>Regarding &lt;a href=&quot;http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/07/05/deutschland-vor/comment-page-1/#comment-6072&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this comment&lt;/a&gt; - I&#039;m having trouble making out beneath the biting sarcasm how frequently you *read* AV&#039;s blog. Because it seems to me that you&#039;re pouncing on his purported error and inferring from it and his replies that he must hold views X, Y and Z, which I&#039;m *fairly* sure he doesn&#039;t.

[As for linguistic analysis, what&#039;s it saying about me, eh? I suspect one could get quite a lot right about me from reading such tea leaves, but the errors might be interesting...]

I think snarking at the author of a blog post and then professing surprise when he or she bites back is also a bit disingenuous (and if you know AV&#039;s past blogging, don&#039;t you think one could see why he might not react with sheepish &quot;that&#039;s me told then&quot;?).

Other random thoughts: privilege is not a linear order; and the norms of discourse surely depend on the settings and context in which it takes place. I see from your link that you&#039;re happy with, or are comfortable with, a mode of discourse where 

&lt;blockquote&gt;being called out for displaying a racially/sexually denigrating behaviour is not (or at least not necessarily) an accusation that one is thereby “a racist” or “a sexist” – it is a special form of reality check, the privilege check. Checking one’s own unexamined privileges as a result is an opportunity for self-awareness, an opportunity to become a better ally, an opportunity for self-growth.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

However, blithely assuming that the recipient on whom such an opportunity is bestowed will not take affront seems ... discourteous. (Like Graun readers/journos writing to Clark County, to use a tangential analogy from recent history.) If the aim is to change people&#039;s behaviour, rather than to assert superiority, then *why* go in with studs up?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding <a href="http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/07/05/deutschland-vor/comment-page-1/#comment-6072" rel="nofollow">this comment</a> &#8211; I&#8217;m having trouble making out beneath the biting sarcasm how frequently you *read* AV&#8217;s blog. Because it seems to me that you&#8217;re pouncing on his purported error and inferring from it and his replies that he must hold views X, Y and Z, which I&#8217;m *fairly* sure he doesn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>[As for linguistic analysis, what's it saying about me, eh? I suspect one could get quite a lot right about me from reading such tea leaves, but the errors might be interesting...]</p>
<p>I think snarking at the author of a blog post and then professing surprise when he or she bites back is also a bit disingenuous (and if you know AV&#8217;s past blogging, don&#8217;t you think one could see why he might not react with sheepish &#8220;that&#8217;s me told then&#8221;?).</p>
<p>Other random thoughts: privilege is not a linear order; and the norms of discourse surely depend on the settings and context in which it takes place. I see from your link that you&#8217;re happy with, or are comfortable with, a mode of discourse where </p>
<blockquote><p>being called out for displaying a racially/sexually denigrating behaviour is not (or at least not necessarily) an accusation that one is thereby “a racist” or “a sexist” – it is a special form of reality check, the privilege check. Checking one’s own unexamined privileges as a result is an opportunity for self-awareness, an opportunity to become a better ally, an opportunity for self-growth.</p></blockquote>
<p>However, blithely assuming that the recipient on whom such an opportunity is bestowed will not take affront seems &#8230; discourteous. (Like Graun readers/journos writing to Clark County, to use a tangential analogy from recent history.) If the aim is to change people&#8217;s behaviour, rather than to assert superiority, then *why* go in with studs up?</p>
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		<title>By: Anton Vowl</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/07/05/deutschland-vor/comment-page-1/#comment-6078</link>
		<dc:creator>Anton Vowl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 07:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=2296#comment-6078</guid>
		<description>No. Troll.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. Troll.</p>
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		<title>By: feminazi</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/07/05/deutschland-vor/comment-page-1/#comment-6072</link>
		<dc:creator>feminazi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=2296#comment-6072</guid>
		<description>Language is meaningless! It doesn&#039;t shape reality, despite what those damned linguists keep on telling us. Insults based on inherent traits hold no power. Sexist jokes are harmless. (Richard Littlejohn would be on your side so you *must* be right! It&#039;s political correctness gone mad!)

If you mean &quot;Anton&quot; when you say &quot;we&quot;, don&#039;t say &quot;we&quot; - it&#039;s kinda confusing to your readers. &quot;We&quot; is inclusive - I can&#039;t believe I even have to spell this out. And if you say &quot;we&quot; but in such a way as to exclude those of your readers that &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; have nuts, then yeah, it&#039;s exclusionary (like, duh). 

And your completely OTT rage when challenged is... pretty interesting, really. Why defend to the death what to you was probably just a throwaway phrase rather than saying, yeah, I see your point? It seems rather irrational and somewhat disproportionate, to say the very least. 

So I say again, have you heard of &lt;a href=&quot;http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090822.6305/on-unexamined-privileges-and-unconscious-behaviours/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;unexamined privilege&lt;/a&gt;? Because that was a shining example of it, right there. 

&lt;i&gt;And it’s not a pernicious effect.&lt;/i&gt;

I beg to differ. Despite what you think, despite what you might tell yourself, it really, really is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Language is meaningless! It doesn&#8217;t shape reality, despite what those damned linguists keep on telling us. Insults based on inherent traits hold no power. Sexist jokes are harmless. (Richard Littlejohn would be on your side so you *must* be right! It&#8217;s political correctness gone mad!)</p>
<p>If you mean &#8220;Anton&#8221; when you say &#8220;we&#8221;, don&#8217;t say &#8220;we&#8221; &#8211; it&#8217;s kinda confusing to your readers. &#8220;We&#8221; is inclusive &#8211; I can&#8217;t believe I even have to spell this out. And if you say &#8220;we&#8221; but in such a way as to exclude those of your readers that <i>don&#8217;t</i> have nuts, then yeah, it&#8217;s exclusionary (like, duh). </p>
<p>And your completely OTT rage when challenged is&#8230; pretty interesting, really. Why defend to the death what to you was probably just a throwaway phrase rather than saying, yeah, I see your point? It seems rather irrational and somewhat disproportionate, to say the very least. </p>
<p>So I say again, have you heard of <a href="http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090822.6305/on-unexamined-privileges-and-unconscious-behaviours/" rel="nofollow">unexamined privilege</a>? Because that was a shining example of it, right there. </p>
<p><i>And it’s not a pernicious effect.</i></p>
<p>I beg to differ. Despite what you think, despite what you might tell yourself, it really, really is.</p>
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		<title>By: hellblazer</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/07/05/deutschland-vor/comment-page-1/#comment-6069</link>
		<dc:creator>hellblazer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 21:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=2296#comment-6069</guid>
		<description>On rereading (again), couldn&#039;t the offending part of AV&#039;s original post be smoothed over by changing the words &quot;is that we’re a bunch&quot; to &quot;is of a bunch&quot;?

Also, what AV said: when I was a man, I spake as a man, and all that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On rereading (again), couldn&#8217;t the offending part of AV&#8217;s original post be smoothed over by changing the words &#8220;is that we’re a bunch&#8221; to &#8220;is of a bunch&#8221;?</p>
<p>Also, what AV said: when I was a man, I spake as a man, and all that.</p>
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		<title>By: hellblazer</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/07/05/deutschland-vor/comment-page-1/#comment-6068</link>
		<dc:creator>hellblazer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 21:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=2296#comment-6068</guid>
		<description>Full quote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;because the lazy, cliched stereotype of English people, and England football fans - one which regrettably gets dragged out by my so-called comrades on the political left - is that we&#039;re a bunch of knuckledragging xenophobic idiots who would rather cut our own nuts off than see the Germans win&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In other words, this is the &lt;i&gt;stereotype&lt;/i&gt; of English football fans. And it&#039;s fair to say that the stereotype is that most such fans are drunken, boorish and male. It is even, depending where you go to watch your football, not widlly off the mark.

Forget privilege; nothing about its presence or absence precludes willingness to parse a sentence, surely? (My brief brush with the copy-editing side of publishing suggests the gender balance there is actually quite healthy.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Full quote:</p>
<blockquote><p>because the lazy, cliched stereotype of English people, and England football fans &#8211; one which regrettably gets dragged out by my so-called comrades on the political left &#8211; is that we&#8217;re a bunch of knuckledragging xenophobic idiots who would rather cut our own nuts off than see the Germans win</p></blockquote>
<p>In other words, this is the <i>stereotype</i> of English football fans. And it&#8217;s fair to say that the stereotype is that most such fans are drunken, boorish and male. It is even, depending where you go to watch your football, not widlly off the mark.</p>
<p>Forget privilege; nothing about its presence or absence precludes willingness to parse a sentence, surely? (My brief brush with the copy-editing side of publishing suggests the gender balance there is actually quite healthy.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jared Earle</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/07/05/deutschland-vor/comment-page-1/#comment-6061</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared Earle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=2296#comment-6061</guid>
		<description>Wow, way to fall off the trolley. That was quite spectacular fauxrage, Feminazi. 

I&#039;m all for stamping out blatant sexism where I see it, but you&#039;re doing your cause no good by wasting your strength and effort here. In fact, you&#039;re doing yourself a disservice and draw ire instead of support. 

Nicely done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, way to fall off the trolley. That was quite spectacular fauxrage, Feminazi. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for stamping out blatant sexism where I see it, but you&#8217;re doing your cause no good by wasting your strength and effort here. In fact, you&#8217;re doing yourself a disservice and draw ire instead of support. </p>
<p>Nicely done.</p>
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		<title>By: Anton Vowl</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/07/05/deutschland-vor/comment-page-1/#comment-6059</link>
		<dc:creator>Anton Vowl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 16:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=2296#comment-6059</guid>
		<description>Look, I&#039;m not above criticism, where it&#039;s warranted. But the odd gender-specific bit of language does not a misogynist make. And it&#039;s not a pernicious effect. I am including me in the we so therefore I make it masculine; if I were a woman I would make it feminine. And that&#039;s all there is to it. That really is it. But that won&#039;t be good enough for you, will it? You&#039;ve decided that you&#039;ve spotted some kind of gender bias in what I&#039;ve written, so therefore I must be called out on it. For which, many congratulations. Well done. I hope you spend the same amount of time bothering all the people who devote their entire lives to hating women. Been watching the debate in the House of Commons on rape anonymity for suspects? But no, fuck that - let&#039;s piss off some fucking blogger somewhere, that&#039;ll make everything so much better, won&#039;t it? And no, I&#039;m not sorry for being rude. Not at all. Never have been, never will. Don&#039;t care. I care when I cause genuine offence and when it&#039;s warranted, and those who have written to me with such concerns can testify. But no. Not on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, I&#8217;m not above criticism, where it&#8217;s warranted. But the odd gender-specific bit of language does not a misogynist make. And it&#8217;s not a pernicious effect. I am including me in the we so therefore I make it masculine; if I were a woman I would make it feminine. And that&#8217;s all there is to it. That really is it. But that won&#8217;t be good enough for you, will it? You&#8217;ve decided that you&#8217;ve spotted some kind of gender bias in what I&#8217;ve written, so therefore I must be called out on it. For which, many congratulations. Well done. I hope you spend the same amount of time bothering all the people who devote their entire lives to hating women. Been watching the debate in the House of Commons on rape anonymity for suspects? But no, fuck that &#8211; let&#8217;s piss off some fucking blogger somewhere, that&#8217;ll make everything so much better, won&#8217;t it? And no, I&#8217;m not sorry for being rude. Not at all. Never have been, never will. Don&#8217;t care. I care when I cause genuine offence and when it&#8217;s warranted, and those who have written to me with such concerns can testify. But no. Not on this.</p>
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		<title>By: feminazi</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/07/05/deutschland-vor/comment-page-1/#comment-6054</link>
		<dc:creator>feminazi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 16:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=2296#comment-6054</guid>
		<description>(P.S. Ever heard of &lt;a href=&quot;http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090822.6305/on-unexamined-privileges-and-unconscious-behaviours/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;unexamined privilege&lt;/a&gt;?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(P.S. Ever heard of <a href="http://hoydenabouttown.com/20090822.6305/on-unexamined-privileges-and-unconscious-behaviours/" rel="nofollow">unexamined privilege</a>?)</p>
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