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	<title>Comments on: The Greek situation</title>
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	<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/03/22/the-greek-situation/</link>
	<description>Poundshop potshots at the media moral maze.</description>
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		<title>By: Matt Harwood</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/03/22/the-greek-situation/comment-page-1/#comment-13436</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Harwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jun 2011 17:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=1669#comment-13436</guid>
		<description>Excellent, informative, eye-opening and inspiring piece - it&#039;s a pleasure to have found it, and by extension, your blog.

Greece, to my mind, is the scapegoat to distract attention from the inherently, predictable failure of the Euro currency and capitalism internationally. 

European bureaucrats are sitting comfortably, whilst they continue to prop up the false idea that the Euro can ever work, shouting that it&#039;s Greece&#039;s fault, and before that Ireland, Portugal, Spain.. country by country, the elephant in the room of European-state nationalists creating an unsustainable economic environment not being talked about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent, informative, eye-opening and inspiring piece &#8211; it&#8217;s a pleasure to have found it, and by extension, your blog.</p>
<p>Greece, to my mind, is the scapegoat to distract attention from the inherently, predictable failure of the Euro currency and capitalism internationally. </p>
<p>European bureaucrats are sitting comfortably, whilst they continue to prop up the false idea that the Euro can ever work, shouting that it&#8217;s Greece&#8217;s fault, and before that Ireland, Portugal, Spain.. country by country, the elephant in the room of European-state nationalists creating an unsustainable economic environment not being talked about.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonas</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/03/22/the-greek-situation/comment-page-1/#comment-12804</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 16:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=1669#comment-12804</guid>
		<description>No, condescending comments about other people&#039;s nationality make you a racist.

The problem of debt - including the degree to which it&#039;s even a real and meaningful statistic - is complex. (I suggest the documentary Debtocracy, as soon as it has English subtitles.) The myth of the overinflated Greek public sector, however, is just that: a myth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, condescending comments about other people&#8217;s nationality make you a racist.</p>
<p>The problem of debt &#8211; including the degree to which it&#8217;s even a real and meaningful statistic &#8211; is complex. (I suggest the documentary Debtocracy, as soon as it has English subtitles.) The myth of the overinflated Greek public sector, however, is just that: a myth.</p>
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		<title>By: Jn</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/03/22/the-greek-situation/comment-page-1/#comment-11646</link>
		<dc:creator>Jn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Feb 2011 14:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=1669#comment-11646</guid>
		<description>&quot;Public debt is at nearly $406 billion, and new debt for 2009 was at 12.7% of GDP.&quot;

But what Jonas doesn&#039;t tell you here is that by the end of 2009, Greece&#039;s public debt was 126.8% of GDP.
( Source: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_PUBLIC/2-15112010-AP/EN/2-15112010-AP-EN.PDF )

Rather different from the figure he&#039;s gives, isn&#039;t it?

I tried to explain to Jonas what the problem was on his blog - that the public sector was spending more than the private sector was able to provide - but criticising Greece&#039;s public sector policies (which are no by means unique to Greece, as he himself admits) makes you a racist and a fascist, apparently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Public debt is at nearly $406 billion, and new debt for 2009 was at 12.7% of GDP.&#8221;</p>
<p>But what Jonas doesn&#8217;t tell you here is that by the end of 2009, Greece&#8217;s public debt was 126.8% of GDP.<br />
( Source: <a href="http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_PUBLIC/2-15112010-AP/EN/2-15112010-AP-EN.PDF" rel="nofollow">http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_PUBLIC/2-15112010-AP/EN/2-15112010-AP-EN.PDF</a> )</p>
<p>Rather different from the figure he&#8217;s gives, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>I tried to explain to Jonas what the problem was on his blog &#8211; that the public sector was spending more than the private sector was able to provide &#8211; but criticising Greece&#8217;s public sector policies (which are no by means unique to Greece, as he himself admits) makes you a racist and a fascist, apparently.</p>
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		<title>By: Leetsa P.</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/03/22/the-greek-situation/comment-page-1/#comment-4877</link>
		<dc:creator>Leetsa P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=1669#comment-4877</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve just finished reading you&#039;re introduction. I can&#039;t wait to finish reading the rest of it.  I&#039;m a Hellenic born, raised in the States and I identify with both countries and neither at the same time.  I&#039;m an English teacher here in Greece. I spend most of my time encouraging our youth to keep up a stiff upper lip, their hopes high, their dreams alive and me at their sides. You see my friend I, along with a few others, don&#039;t intend to run off but sweat and work it all out.  And in the end hopefully set this poor country on a straight path again. (it&#039;s been a thousand odd years I believe).  I wish you all the best. Keep writing my friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve just finished reading you&#8217;re introduction. I can&#8217;t wait to finish reading the rest of it.  I&#8217;m a Hellenic born, raised in the States and I identify with both countries and neither at the same time.  I&#8217;m an English teacher here in Greece. I spend most of my time encouraging our youth to keep up a stiff upper lip, their hopes high, their dreams alive and me at their sides. You see my friend I, along with a few others, don&#8217;t intend to run off but sweat and work it all out.  And in the end hopefully set this poor country on a straight path again. (it&#8217;s been a thousand odd years I believe).  I wish you all the best. Keep writing my friend.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonas</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/03/22/the-greek-situation/comment-page-1/#comment-4130</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:47:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=1669#comment-4130</guid>
		<description>In clarification about the German war crimes:

a) Not just the involvement in this war in general, but more specifically events like the Kunduz Massacre, which sent the German government into crisis.

b) Other disturbing events like the &quot;skull scandal&quot; of German soldiers posing with skulls in Aghanistan.

Such events are not to be taken lightly anywhere, but they are doubly disturbing in a country with Germany&#039;s history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In clarification about the German war crimes:</p>
<p>a) Not just the involvement in this war in general, but more specifically events like the Kunduz Massacre, which sent the German government into crisis.</p>
<p>b) Other disturbing events like the &#8220;skull scandal&#8221; of German soldiers posing with skulls in Aghanistan.</p>
<p>Such events are not to be taken lightly anywhere, but they are doubly disturbing in a country with Germany&#8217;s history.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Ward</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/03/22/the-greek-situation/comment-page-1/#comment-4123</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Ward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=1669#comment-4123</guid>
		<description>Thank you for an interesting piece, I found it particularly interesting that the Focus piece wants to separate modern Greek society from the part of Greek culture that is generally admired (ancient Greece). This kind of writing smells like propaganda from a dark past but, as an article on its own, is it not just someone who has incorrect / abhorrent views rather than part of a controlled conspiracy to destabilise Greece or reduce their standing in the European Union? 

One point I would like clarification on within the article from the Author is the reference to German war crimes in Afghanistan &amp; Pakistan that &quot;raise eerie memories&quot;? Does this refer merely to their involvement in the conflict with little public support or does it refer to specific war crimes or an allegations? I think this is too strong an allegation to make unreferenced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for an interesting piece, I found it particularly interesting that the Focus piece wants to separate modern Greek society from the part of Greek culture that is generally admired (ancient Greece). This kind of writing smells like propaganda from a dark past but, as an article on its own, is it not just someone who has incorrect / abhorrent views rather than part of a controlled conspiracy to destabilise Greece or reduce their standing in the European Union? </p>
<p>One point I would like clarification on within the article from the Author is the reference to German war crimes in Afghanistan &amp; Pakistan that &#8220;raise eerie memories&#8221;? Does this refer merely to their involvement in the conflict with little public support or does it refer to specific war crimes or an allegations? I think this is too strong an allegation to make unreferenced.</p>
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		<title>By: Blackberries</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/03/22/the-greek-situation/comment-page-1/#comment-4110</link>
		<dc:creator>Blackberries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 04:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=1669#comment-4110</guid>
		<description>Excellent, informative and interesting post. Thanks to Jonas for writing it and Anton for hosting it :-).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent, informative and interesting post. Thanks to Jonas for writing it and Anton for hosting it <img src='http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
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		<title>By: uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/03/22/the-greek-situation/comment-page-1/#comment-4104</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:57:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=1669#comment-4104</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by antonvowl: New Enemies: Guest post - The Greek Situation http://bit.ly/bG7rkv...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by antonvowl: New Enemies: Guest post &#8211; The Greek Situation <a href="http://bit.ly/bG7rkv.." rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/bG7rkv..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/03/22/the-greek-situation/comment-page-1/#comment-4102</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=1669#comment-4102</guid>
		<description>Well firstly, you can&#039;t get what you call the international elite to pay, there&#039;s no legal recourse. You can get angry about it, sure. See how that works out for you. Secondly, are they solely to blame? Like I said, For Goldman to do what they did, the Greek government had to agree to something they should have known would cause them trouble. Who voted in the government - the people. Thridly, who accurately predicted or indeed knew the consequences of the Greek government&#039;s actions? Goldman - yes, the Greeks (people, government, elite, journalists) oir indeed anyone else in the whole world apart from Goldman - no. 

So it is a fuck up. But who should pay for it? I see no reason why the Germans should pay for it. The European Union - well Greece is a net creditor from the EU already, i.e. it&#039;s mainly German &amp; UK money that they&#039;ve been getting. How&#039;s that worked so far? 

And whoever pays for Greece, are they also going to pay for Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, UK? Why not? It wouldn&#039;t be fair to bail out one country, would it?

Finally, like I said before, short, painful periods of correction are beneficial in the long run. That&#039;s what Greece should be asking for. SOunds harsh, right? Well would you rather have painful chemotherapy or let the cancer continue to grow? 

I have full sympathy for the Greeks, not least because we (the UK) are ultimately in the same situation though most people don&#039;t realise it yet. But at the end of the day, what is best for them and us, is not to get outside help and additional money to prop up businesses that aren&#039;t working and debts that are only increasing. It is to cure the problem (let the business go so that new and better ones can replace them) and to reduce the debt by - horror - increasing taxes and cutting public spending. 

That&#039;s the unpalatable truth and we can complain about how unfair it is - and I&#039;m not saying it isn&#039;t unfair - but that won&#039;t achieve anything. We have to be dispassionate about the rights and wrongs and simply look at the facts, and work out what is best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well firstly, you can&#8217;t get what you call the international elite to pay, there&#8217;s no legal recourse. You can get angry about it, sure. See how that works out for you. Secondly, are they solely to blame? Like I said, For Goldman to do what they did, the Greek government had to agree to something they should have known would cause them trouble. Who voted in the government &#8211; the people. Thridly, who accurately predicted or indeed knew the consequences of the Greek government&#8217;s actions? Goldman &#8211; yes, the Greeks (people, government, elite, journalists) oir indeed anyone else in the whole world apart from Goldman &#8211; no. </p>
<p>So it is a fuck up. But who should pay for it? I see no reason why the Germans should pay for it. The European Union &#8211; well Greece is a net creditor from the EU already, i.e. it&#8217;s mainly German &amp; UK money that they&#8217;ve been getting. How&#8217;s that worked so far? </p>
<p>And whoever pays for Greece, are they also going to pay for Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, UK? Why not? It wouldn&#8217;t be fair to bail out one country, would it?</p>
<p>Finally, like I said before, short, painful periods of correction are beneficial in the long run. That&#8217;s what Greece should be asking for. SOunds harsh, right? Well would you rather have painful chemotherapy or let the cancer continue to grow? </p>
<p>I have full sympathy for the Greeks, not least because we (the UK) are ultimately in the same situation though most people don&#8217;t realise it yet. But at the end of the day, what is best for them and us, is not to get outside help and additional money to prop up businesses that aren&#8217;t working and debts that are only increasing. It is to cure the problem (let the business go so that new and better ones can replace them) and to reduce the debt by &#8211; horror &#8211; increasing taxes and cutting public spending. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s the unpalatable truth and we can complain about how unfair it is &#8211; and I&#8217;m not saying it isn&#8217;t unfair &#8211; but that won&#8217;t achieve anything. We have to be dispassionate about the rights and wrongs and simply look at the facts, and work out what is best.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonas</title>
		<link>http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/2010/03/22/the-greek-situation/comment-page-1/#comment-4097</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://enemiesofreason.co.uk/?p=1669#comment-4097</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The only problem is that their population with history of rebellion almost certainly won’t allow them to do it. As a result, the governments will be pushed into asking for money, blaming others, extremist politics to deal with the civil unrest, and so on.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So the Greek working population has to pay for the actions of the Greek and international elite, while the rich and powerful happily continue on their way? Why shouldn&#039;t those who are responsible - and have the money - pay for their mistakes? (Mistakes which they are likely to repeat.) And what is the point of having a European Union if it bails out banks, but not its own members?

Furthermore, Greece wasn&#039;t even asking for a bailout.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The only problem is that their population with history of rebellion almost certainly won’t allow them to do it. As a result, the governments will be pushed into asking for money, blaming others, extremist politics to deal with the civil unrest, and so on.</p></blockquote>
<p>So the Greek working population has to pay for the actions of the Greek and international elite, while the rich and powerful happily continue on their way? Why shouldn&#8217;t those who are responsible &#8211; and have the money &#8211; pay for their mistakes? (Mistakes which they are likely to repeat.) And what is the point of having a European Union if it bails out banks, but not its own members?</p>
<p>Furthermore, Greece wasn&#8217;t even asking for a bailout.</p>
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